“We will recommend Lapid, Netanyahu is trying to delete us”

“Elections are not an easy time,” Horowitz said in his opening remarks. “We need strong nerves. Meretz is a party that always fights, even during elections, because that is our mission. We are a party of struggle. No politician enjoys a campaign, sometimes it may look like that but it is a difficult and tense period. There is a lot of pressure and a lot of responsibility too. It is not a personal matter, it is a national matter, there are weighty things at stake. “

Why not resign to avoid a fifth election?
“Because if there is no Meretz, Netanyahu will have a 61 government with Smutrich and Ben Gvir. A government that will do annexation, racism and religious coercion. Meretz will never allow such a thing to happen. The only way to prevent this is a strategic vote, and I say that to people who do not support Meretz clearly – in order to prevent Netanyahu from a 61-member government with the extreme right, we need to vote for Meretz. “

But if you do not pass the blocking percentage you will not be in government.
“In the last seven days there have been seven polls, in six of them Meretz has passed – so we are not in this place.” Horowitz described an awakening in Meretz: “It is important for leftists to have a voice in the Knesset, the thought that Shulamit Aloni’s party will not enter but Kahana’s does terrify them. They mobilize and they help. “Journalists two weeks ago. Why does Netanyahu so want to delete us? Because he knows that he will not find defectors with us.”

Do you promise not to resign before the election?
“Meretz is not like Lieberman’s party, it is not my personal-private party. It is a real movement, with thousands of members and branches all over the country. A movement that has been running in elections since the establishment of the state in every election, so it does not even occur to us. My, it’s a matter of movement – and this movement is the only left movement today. Do you imagine that there will be no left in the Knesset? That there will be no left in Israeli society? This is the wet dream of the far right, I will not give them this pleasure to erase Meretz. .

Who would you recommend to the prime minister?
“Yair Lapid. I see him as the head of the largest party in our bloc and with the best chance in the bloc to form a government. We will recommend him for prime minister and become part of the government with him. Meretz intends to demand the education portfolio, I want to be the next education minister, and yes, that is the direction.”

What will the next government look like?
“We want a government whose core will be the center-left parties, but understand that this is not enough to form a government – and do not rule out parties on the other side. The options are the Netanyahu government with extremists, ultra-Orthodox and Kahanists, or another government. The other government is not simple, it is true, “Also scenarios of a fifth election or of a corrupt prime minister who continues to serve are worse. I think in this election there is an opportunity to form a change government, which must focus first and foremost on the economic story – get the unemployed back to work, bring in a budget and close Corona’s health care.”

Most of the public is right-wing, why would such a government want to?
“This is the only option for a government without Netanyahu. There were three election campaigns before, if the majority of the public is right. How is it that Netanyahu failed to form a government? How is it that his bloc did not have more than sixty seats? Because most of the public wants another government. “The right-wing task of all parties, except the Likud, will be to pass a law immediately after the election. A criminal accused cannot be given a mandate to form a government. This is a law that must be passed before the government is formed.”

On propaganda against the ultra-Orthodox, Horowitz said: “We do not engage in such propaganda. We have serious allegations against the ultra-Orthodox leadership, which is a group with a lot of power and power in Israeli society, which has enormous control over budgets and political jobs. The ultra-Orthodox leadership dragged the country into disaster during the Corona period. “Sick and dead. That is why we have very serious claims. We will not tolerate religious coercion and we will not tolerate parties forcing a way of life that is contrary to our choice. Secular people also have values ​​and a way of life.”

Why are you attacking the Labor Party?
“We are not, this is an important party. We only address undecided people. Labor people, vote for the Labor Party. This is an important party and we have always been side by side, in fact since the establishment of the state. Sometimes we were together – even last time. But, Meretz people have to vote “The last thing the voters of these parties want is for support for one of them to hurt the other.”

Are you not the same?
“There are things on which we agree, and on the right there are also parties that agree. That’s fine. There are things where our line is different – for example on political issues, we are more emphasizing the situation in the territories and working on it. Another basic thing is that we are more committed to our principles and less zigzagging. The work did not pass some of the tests of the past, including the last time he wanted to join us. ”

What connects you to Gideon Saar?
“There is a really huge gap between us, but I think what will unite partners around the idea of ​​a new government is the democratic idea: strengthening democracy, protecting the rule of law, resisting a corrupt prime minister who is criminally charged and corrupts the system. These are unusually important things. It is also a responsibility. “For the functioning of the state – the education system, for example, was disabled for a year, it did not happen anywhere in the world. The government should take care of it, but Netanyahu is abandoning everything because of the law.”

Is Ben Gvir a terrorist in your eyes?
“He is a racist and a despicable person in my eyes. A terrorist? In my opinion, my definitions are no less sharp. I think he is a member or affiliated with a party and a body defined as a terrorist organization, which is a movement like this – founded by Rabbi Kahana. At the time, when Kahana spoke in the Knesset, he was the only one – all Knesset members would leave the hall in protest. Now the prime minister is the one who puts Kahana’s heirs on the main road to the Knesset. That is a disgrace. ”

Why do you want IDF soldiers to be tried in The Hague?
“I oppose the prosecution of IDF soldiers abroad in some foreign body. Unequivocally. When I spoke on this matter, I spoke about the government’s policy regarding settlements in the territories.”

But the investigation is, among other things, also on a solid cliff.
“I say most clearly, I oppose the prosecution of IDF soldiers abroad. I think it is not soldiers who are in charge, but the government. I also do not want the defense minister or anyone else to be prosecuted either. I want the government to change Its policy. ”

Were war crimes committed on a solid cliff?
“I do not think so, no.”

So why did you rush to protect The Hague?
“I did not defend, the right threw away these statements. I said – and this is not a simple statement either – that if Netanyahu, the right and the settlers continue with this policy of wild outposts, freezing the peace process and abandoning the political issue – then they will drag Israel to all these places in The Hague.” .

According to Horowitz, “Our soldiers do not travel in the United Arab Emirates, but in Ramallah, Nablus and Jenin. Yesterday Netanyahu visited Susya in the southern Hebron Mountains. Why did he come there? Because there are the most extremist settlers and he gives them support. This is his hug with Ben Gvir. “He lives in Hebron, and we are struggling with that. This problem will not go away.”

What do you think about the application model?
“I’m not enthusiastic about it, I think they did it in a way that was far too sweeping than it should have been and today there are a lot of people who are stuck in the Knesset and do not return to work. I want a large part of the people in the Knesset to start returning to work, and for that to happen the government needs to intervene. There is a model we support, the German model, that instead of paying unemployment benefits to Knesset members, they will pay this money to employers. “.

“We are in favor of unemployment benefits and unemployment benefits,” he added, “but with Netanyahu this is the only thing. In the social-democratic model we support as a left-wing party, we are also talking about investments that create growth – and this is what the government has not done at all. It only gave compensation, to the unemployed and business owners so that they would not starve to death, but it did not set up ventures and infrastructure and did not do things that would renew growth. She just handed out so-called sedative pills. It does not give renewed growth, and here we are stuck. “

What is the main idea you would like to implement in economics in the coming year?
“As in Europe and as Biden does, we need to invest in public service. It is the opposite of what Netanyahu wants – health, education and housing. These are the main public services I want the government to invest in – and also to employ more workers. I am in favor of increasing public service. “We are now sitting at home with teaching certificates and not working. If we want to reduce the classes, reduce the corona deficit and make up for this lost year, we need more teachers.”

Horowitz claimed that there was a disillusionment with “wild capitalism” on the right, and attacked Naftali Bennett’s “Singapore Plan”: “This is complete nonsense. “Increase, and there will be changes in taxation. Anyone who denies this is not telling the truth and the public knows he is lying.”

The Meretz chairman also said he was in favor of corona vaccines and had been vaccinated himself, but clarified that he was opposed to forcing vaccines: “This is not a good method. The best way to deal with this is to explain to the public that it is good to get vaccinated. I want these things to be done out of understanding and desire and not out of coercion, and I think arrangements can be found that will encourage that. In my opinion the very large majority will be vaccinated one way or another, this health issue will be resolved. You don’t have to go head to head with the people. “

Can you be trusted that the political issue will be on the agenda?
“There is one party that talks about it and it is one of its flags – Meretz. All the other parties ran away from it. I think the right managed to scare everyone and delegitimize. It is difficult to be leftist in the country, it even becomes a kind of curse. In Bibi’s eyes it is traitors and oppressors of Israel. “This struggle is unpopular but it is right and just. There is no way to ensure the existence of the State of Israel as Jewish and democratic without a solution with the Palestinians – otherwise we will be immersed in this occupation and within these territories.”

Commenting on the statement by Jida Rinawi Zoabi from his party that she would not support the law banning conversion therapy, Horowitz said: “Meretz is the champion of LGBT legislation, and I am the first gay party chairman in Israel. Yeruham thanks and leaves. Whoever votes for Meretz knows that in the matter of the LGBT people we are going all the way. The law against conversion therapies is mine, do you think I will give it up? We will go with him to the end. ”

But one of the senior ministers in the government is from the community – Amir Ohana.
“Fine, but what is he doing for the proud community? That’s the question. When he attacks the Supreme Court, he is harming the proud community, because most of its rights are achieved through the decisions of the High Court. If he wants to overthrow the High Court because of Netanyahu’s corruption, he is harming the community. ”